After nearly six years it looks like our time at Amazon is coming to an end
Hey guys,
Firstly, I have not posted about this before because I do not want this post to become a debate about the merits of our claim. We have ample evidence of our side and this is between us and Amazon, so opinions about whether we are right or wrong are not wanted. We can make our claim but this is not the place to go over all of the talking points and evidence.
But here are the basics:
We make manufacture and sell flavorings. These are general flavoring products used for food, beverages, topical applications, candles, aromatherapy and many other uses. We have been selling these on Amazon since 2017 with few problems. We started with a few profiles and a couple of sized and gradually, over the last six years, we’ve expanded to around 50 products, each with several variations. We do both self-fulfilled and FBA. We had hundreds of individual listings
Suddenly, about a month ago. We were hit with hundreds of violations. Somehow these flavors were marked as electronic cigarette related and/or drug paraphernalia. These are not electronic cigarette related and we’ve established over and over again that these are primarily used for foods, beverages, aromatherapy, candles, and incense.
I have spend hundreds of hours in the last month filing appeals, updating descriptions to eliminate ambiguity, adding photos with ingredients visible, providing certificates of analysis, safety data sheets, ingredient lists, and instruction sheets. Some of these were specifically requested in the appeal response. Each appeal is being treated independently, with each requiring specific documentation - which we have provided every time.
We have pointed out that “flavors”, “flavorings”, or “terpenes” do not appear anywhere in the policy language. We are unsure what part of this policy allegedly applies to our products.
In fact, Amazon’s Drugs and drug paraphernalia policy page at https://sellercentral.amazon.com/help/hub/reference/G200164490
Quote: "LegitScript has a searchable database that may help when determining if a supplement includes a prohibited ingredient: https://www.legitscript.com/
A search of “terpenes” yields this page:
“In general, non-cannabis terpenes are not problematic. Unlike CBD, which the FDA frequently notes may not be used in food or dietary supplements, there are few restrictions on consumable products containing terpenes. In fact, many terpenes are “generally recognized as safe” (GRAS) by the FDA for use in foods, and they are frequently used as such.”
So Amazon’s own policy indicates that our products should not be a problem.
Our problem is that we have over 210 violations. Trying to get a consistent, fair, and informed answer seems to be impossible. All I get back is boilerplate rejections. Somehow our products are associated with electronic cigarettes, Amazon won’t explain exactly why, and won’t accept any evidence to the contrary. Meanwhile the violations are stacking up and our account health is around 45.
I’ve done everything I can to present evidence. Amazon will not read it. We’ve established a relationship with Amazon and built our business in good faith partnership with Amazon for nearly 7 years, and in the end all we get are hundreds of separate violations that can’t be tied together, and understaffed and underinformed Account Health staff, and threats to hold our money - after taking hundreds of thousands of dollars of our money in advertising over the years. Amazon continues to sell and advertise similar products to this day, in fact. Our competitors are all still listed.
The end of this road is rapidly approaching.
After nearly six years it looks like our time at Amazon is coming to an end
Hey guys,
Firstly, I have not posted about this before because I do not want this post to become a debate about the merits of our claim. We have ample evidence of our side and this is between us and Amazon, so opinions about whether we are right or wrong are not wanted. We can make our claim but this is not the place to go over all of the talking points and evidence.
But here are the basics:
We make manufacture and sell flavorings. These are general flavoring products used for food, beverages, topical applications, candles, aromatherapy and many other uses. We have been selling these on Amazon since 2017 with few problems. We started with a few profiles and a couple of sized and gradually, over the last six years, we’ve expanded to around 50 products, each with several variations. We do both self-fulfilled and FBA. We had hundreds of individual listings
Suddenly, about a month ago. We were hit with hundreds of violations. Somehow these flavors were marked as electronic cigarette related and/or drug paraphernalia. These are not electronic cigarette related and we’ve established over and over again that these are primarily used for foods, beverages, aromatherapy, candles, and incense.
I have spend hundreds of hours in the last month filing appeals, updating descriptions to eliminate ambiguity, adding photos with ingredients visible, providing certificates of analysis, safety data sheets, ingredient lists, and instruction sheets. Some of these were specifically requested in the appeal response. Each appeal is being treated independently, with each requiring specific documentation - which we have provided every time.
We have pointed out that “flavors”, “flavorings”, or “terpenes” do not appear anywhere in the policy language. We are unsure what part of this policy allegedly applies to our products.
In fact, Amazon’s Drugs and drug paraphernalia policy page at https://sellercentral.amazon.com/help/hub/reference/G200164490
Quote: "LegitScript has a searchable database that may help when determining if a supplement includes a prohibited ingredient: https://www.legitscript.com/
A search of “terpenes” yields this page:
“In general, non-cannabis terpenes are not problematic. Unlike CBD, which the FDA frequently notes may not be used in food or dietary supplements, there are few restrictions on consumable products containing terpenes. In fact, many terpenes are “generally recognized as safe” (GRAS) by the FDA for use in foods, and they are frequently used as such.”
So Amazon’s own policy indicates that our products should not be a problem.
Our problem is that we have over 210 violations. Trying to get a consistent, fair, and informed answer seems to be impossible. All I get back is boilerplate rejections. Somehow our products are associated with electronic cigarettes, Amazon won’t explain exactly why, and won’t accept any evidence to the contrary. Meanwhile the violations are stacking up and our account health is around 45.
I’ve done everything I can to present evidence. Amazon will not read it. We’ve established a relationship with Amazon and built our business in good faith partnership with Amazon for nearly 7 years, and in the end all we get are hundreds of separate violations that can’t be tied together, and understaffed and underinformed Account Health staff, and threats to hold our money - after taking hundreds of thousands of dollars of our money in advertising over the years. Amazon continues to sell and advertise similar products to this day, in fact. Our competitors are all still listed.
The end of this road is rapidly approaching.
71 Antworten
Seller_4RRTjOpWG0qkj
You have multiple problems that you should address that can help your account helath
For instance, your feedback is not good (50% negative in the last 30 days, 25% on the last 90) I’m just bringing this up because this affects your ODR which affects your account health
I also see that some (all) of your products violate image guidelines. Not a single one has a clear background.
Then, I see multiple listings talking about Caryophyllene, and come on:
Don’t be your own worst enemy
Look at this product description
A bot is going to read “Electronic cigarettes” and “Cannabis”
All cigarrette boxes say “smoking will kill you” yet people continue to buy them.
Your stuff saying “not for cannabis” is like saying "use condoms to wrap bananas and protect them from fruit flies, not on “little-you”, this is certainly not a sex-product…
ETA. A better example (I just wanted to use the condom for fruit flies protection) imagine that you’re at the checkpoint in the airport with a very suspicious looking bag with a ticking noise (Snape, Snape, Severus Snape), and you paste a paper on top of the bag that reads “definitely not a bomb”
What do you think the airport security will do?
Seller_Yvu9QfhV55nVu
Unrelated (?) comment…
Your photo shows smoking a pipe…
Why not a photo of some food/beverage?
Seller_Hi7wbO2Kbo6bl
Which is why you chose “Fogg” as a store name.
Nothing whatever to do with vaping, toking, or smoking. Not at all.
Seller_T5Mv3ZCUSh7Zl
I can see where Amazon is coming from. You haven’t made it easy. That said, have you emailed jeff@amazon.com to see if/how this can be resolved amicably?
Surely, you can see how your products might be confused (possibly abused) with illegal vape and drugs?
Seller_spBEmM4GC9jW1
Hahahahahaha. OK. Funny how that’s not what your website says about their use. I would not make a website saying that our products are intended for use with a prohibited Amazon item then try and tell them otherwise.
Seller_x39QeHgyQBSFL
Exactly as we all knew would happen. You said you didn't want opinions whether you're right or wrong and what's the only thing you got? Opinions telling you you're wrong, it's all your fault, you're deceitful, etc. Nothing constructive, insightful, or helpful - just negative personal opinions.
Honestly, why do we still come here looking for anything different?
Seller_4RRTjOpWG0qkj
You’re correct. But the 1 bad feedback is (likely) not affecting your account health other than by annoying your ODR (which is still likely to be below 1%), and it will pass in 60 days.
As long as you don’t have other account health issues, feedback is mostly ignorable.
OP’s account has health issues, so feedback (AZs and chargebacks too) gain more weight. Same as VTR, cancellation rate or LSR. Normally accounts don’t really worry about those metrics because they are easy to maintain and keep your health at max. However if the account starts to have health issue, those are the first that need to be checked.
The fact that the feedback is irrelevant to you is (probably and hopefully. We all know that feedback is a flawed metric) because you have not written “cannabis” in half of your listings, and because you’re helping them with images that follow guidelines and descriptions that clearly explain what your product are, without suggesting that they’re certainly not for drugs
Seller_2sSWhvyZsq56v
Try the call me now button:
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/performance/dashboard
If the person does not sound like they are from the USA hangup and try again.
I hate to say that but it’s the truth. Anytime I have every used that “Call Me Now” if it is an American then something gets done, else it’s a waste of time IMHO.
Seller_OqABOukbmHgtP
My advice to you after six years is why you want to be like your competition, be better.
Seller_3N7yVnTXPzLkL
Amazon is reactive on issues of regulatory compliance.
Amazon has issued broad prohibition of the sale of items which are potential regulatory, health and safety issues.
Many sellers have attempted to navigate their way past those restrictions by adjusting the language in their listings to allow them to list restricted products with a wink and a nod.
Amazon does not engage in sentence parsing to enforce their restrictions. Amazon does not use human intelligence to enforce their restrictions. Amazon uses cheap, poorly designed software tools, bots, to enforce their restrictions and it accepts the risk that some products which should not be restricted, will be restricted.
Just as you do not wish the merits of your claim to be debated here, Amazon has no wish to adjudicate the merits of your claim,. or alter its bots.
These issues are dealt with by algorithms and checklists. No lawyers, food technologist, pharmacologists or toxicologists or highly educated individuals will be dealing with your issue.
No one dealing with your listings will have read the legitscipt paper.
Every time a new headline appears in the press which potentially relates to your product, the bot will find addition products you offer to shut down.
You have probably reached to appropriate conclusion about your future on this site.
